Comments on: Organic Foods http://bevear.org/2009/04/organic-foods/ Nathan's blog Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:37:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Kelly http://bevear.org/2009/04/organic-foods/#comment-1062 Kelly Mon, 08 Jun 2009 08:25:54 +0000 http://bevear.org/?p=122#comment-1062 Hmmm, your main protest seems to be against uncritically accepting the 'organic' brand name without considering the issues behind it - similar to 'greenwashing', yes? I think people getting informed and caring and asking questions is a good thing. I also think organic is a good thing. Yes, there are unhealthy (in large quantities) organic processed foods, etc. Living on cookies and muesli bars isn't a good plan, whether they are organic or not. As for the overall healthiness of organic vs non-organic food, I prefer to leave such matters to respected political dietitians, as food research is massively politically charged and best left to the pros to decipher. Marion Nestle (no relation to the evil corporation) is my fav political dietitian, and she reckons that there is no conclusive evidence that organic is healthier, although the environmental benefits alone are enough for her to buy organic. She does note that pesticides from food have been found in the bodies of children, but there is no evidence that these go on to cause any particular health problems. Environment: truly organic farming methods are much healthier for the land (not just not spraying for x number of weeks before harvest!). This is the way agriculture has been done since humans began to use it. Sprays and fertilisers kill the helpful bacteria and creatures (like worms!) in the topsoil, and vast monocultures are more prone to pests and disease, requiring even more sprays. Organic farming includes crop rotation and resting the soil so that it is not exhausted, avoids creating monocultures in favour of working ecosystems that prevent pests and disease, feeds the soil with compost and manure that keeps beneficial soil bacteria and organisms happy, etc etc etc. Most artificial fertilisers and sprays are based on unsustainable petrochemicals that are brought in from outside, while a good organic system will be self sustaining within a given area. Yes, organic farming produces less food per acre. The main limiting factor is nitrogen. Legumes 'fix' nitrogen from the air into the soil, so the next crop that is planted in that bed will use this nitrogen. The discovery of how to artifically produce nitrogen fertiliser from fossil fuels led to an increase in food production, and a corresponding increase in population, so today it is estimated that 1/3 of the world's population is dependent on artificial fertiliser for its food supply. With world overpopulation and peak oil, it may be almost time to get all Daniel Quinn on their asses. Very difficult issues, but the longer we ignore it, the worst it'll get. Sorry for long comment... Hmmm, your main protest seems to be against uncritically accepting the ‘organic’ brand name without considering the issues behind it - similar to ‘greenwashing’, yes?

I think people getting informed and caring and asking questions is a good thing.

I also think organic is a good thing.

Yes, there are unhealthy (in large quantities) organic processed foods, etc. Living on cookies and muesli bars isn’t a good plan, whether they are organic or not. As for the overall healthiness of organic vs non-organic food, I prefer to leave such matters to respected political dietitians, as food research is massively politically charged and best left to the pros to decipher. Marion Nestle (no relation to the evil corporation) is my fav political dietitian, and she reckons that there is no conclusive evidence that organic is healthier, although the environmental benefits alone are enough for her to buy organic. She does note that pesticides from food have been found in the bodies of children, but there is no evidence that these go on to cause any particular health problems.

Environment: truly organic farming methods are much healthier for the land (not just not spraying for x number of weeks before harvest!). This is the way agriculture has been done since humans began to use it. Sprays and fertilisers kill the helpful bacteria and creatures (like worms!) in the topsoil, and vast monocultures are more prone to pests and disease, requiring even more sprays. Organic farming includes crop rotation and resting the soil so that it is not exhausted, avoids creating monocultures in favour of working ecosystems that prevent pests and disease, feeds the soil with compost and manure that keeps beneficial soil bacteria and organisms happy, etc etc etc. Most artificial fertilisers and sprays are based on unsustainable petrochemicals that are brought in from outside, while a good organic system will be self sustaining within a given area.

Yes, organic farming produces less food per acre. The main limiting factor is nitrogen. Legumes ‘fix’ nitrogen from the air into the soil, so the next crop that is planted in that bed will use this nitrogen. The discovery of how to artifically produce nitrogen fertiliser from fossil fuels led to an increase in food production, and a corresponding increase in population, so today it is estimated that 1/3 of the world’s population is dependent on artificial fertiliser for its food supply. With world overpopulation and peak oil, it may be almost time to get all Daniel Quinn on their asses. Very difficult issues, but the longer we ignore it, the worst it’ll get.

Sorry for long comment…

]]> By: Amoebe http://bevear.org/2009/04/organic-foods/#comment-953 Amoebe Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:01:28 +0000 http://bevear.org/?p=122#comment-953 Ok, so you distinguish between organic and non-organic and healthy and unhealthy food. It's just that with organic food it's easier to establish whether it is healthy or not because it is mostly unprocessed. You have more control over what you eat. Adding a modest amount of organic cream to your organic veggie stew is healthy (adding tons of organic cream isn't). It you buy some veggie stew or whatever processed food, however, you will not really know what's in there and it's likely going to contain a lot of sugar, saturated fats and glutamat and flavor enhancers. Some organic food I would argue is health(ier) per se, namely organically grown veggies and fruit as they don't don't contain allt hose chemicals in the fertilizer many non-organic veggies and fruits are smothered with (you can actually taste the fertilizer in some non-organic veggies and fruits like tomatoes or cucumbers). Re your argument that less food per acre is produced - less food per acre is going to produced from a short-term perspective but the ground which is being farmed organically will be fertile for much longer than the ground which is being subjected to mono-cultures and large amounts of chemicals. Organic starting to go brand name is not per se a bad thing. If organic farming and food goes more large-scale prices for organic food are going to go down and more people will be able to actually afford to make the organic choice. Ok, so you distinguish between organic and non-organic and healthy and unhealthy food. It’s just that with organic food it’s easier to establish whether it is healthy or not because it is mostly unprocessed. You have more control over what you eat. Adding a modest amount of organic cream to your organic veggie stew is healthy (adding tons of organic cream isn’t). It you buy some veggie stew or whatever processed food, however, you will not really know what’s in there and it’s likely going to contain a lot of sugar, saturated fats and glutamat and flavor enhancers.
Some organic food I would argue is health(ier) per se, namely organically grown veggies and fruit as they don’t don’t contain allt hose chemicals in the fertilizer many non-organic veggies and fruits are smothered with (you can actually taste the fertilizer in some non-organic veggies and fruits like tomatoes or cucumbers).
Re your argument that less food per acre is produced - less food per acre is going to produced from a short-term perspective but the ground which is being farmed organically will be fertile for much longer than the ground which is being subjected to mono-cultures and large amounts of chemicals. Organic starting to go brand name is not per se a bad thing. If organic farming and food goes more large-scale prices for organic food are going to go down and more people will be able to actually afford to make the organic choice.

]]> By: Jim http://bevear.org/2009/04/organic-foods/#comment-945 Jim Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:09:59 +0000 http://bevear.org/?p=122#comment-945 I think one of the reasons diets based on organic foods are healthier is that you have to put in effort. (same goes for vegetarian diets, gluten free diets etc) It eliminates most of the easy convenient junk food... so you have to think about what you are eating. If you are going to a speciality store (or market, or section of a supermarket) to by foods you have to cook yourself from fresh/raw ingredients it requires no more effort to eat healthily than unhealthily. But if you will scarf down anything, big macs, takeway pizzas, fried chicken, fish and chips, pies, meat in tinned sauce with no added veggies are all available as salty/fatty/easy options. I think one of the reasons diets based on organic foods are healthier is that you have to put in effort.
(same goes for vegetarian diets, gluten free diets etc)

It eliminates most of the easy convenient junk food… so you have to think about what you are eating.

If you are going to a speciality store (or market, or section of a supermarket) to by foods you have to cook yourself from fresh/raw ingredients it requires no more effort to eat healthily than unhealthily.

But if you will scarf down anything, big macs, takeway pizzas, fried chicken, fish and chips, pies, meat in tinned sauce with no added veggies are all available as salty/fatty/easy options.

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